Friday, June 4, 2010

Jalan Cheras Accident - BHP

An accident involving 3 vehicles had occurred at about 3.30 am on 3 June 2010 at Jalan Cheras (near Cheras Velodrome). The chronology of the event as reported in the mass media was as follow:
  1. A Toyota Vios - Vehicle 1 (1 driver & 1 passenger) heading towards Jalan Loke Yew was driven at high speed which later skidded to the opposite of the road hitting Vehicle 2.
  2. A Myvi -Vehicle 2 (1 female driver) spun few times before being hit by incoming Vehicle 3.
  3. A lorry - Vehicle 3 (1 driver & 1 passenger) with loads of vegetables then hit Vehicle 2 before Vehicle 2 burst into flames causing the burning of the female driver ALIVE. 
For many, this is another horrified accident and the worst is the burning to death alive of the victim. It is very sad to hear that.

However, what sparked controversial among the public is the posting of the below FB notes believed to be written by one of the witness (Witness A) who claimed that the life of the female driver could be save should the BHP petrol station's staff lend him a fire extinguisher. In this note, it is claimed that the witness had gone to the said petrol station and the staff refused to borrow a fire extinguisher despite offering to give his IC in exchange of the fire extinguisher. The writer then claimed that the two BHP attendant are murderer!

I believed many of you including me myself had seen such FB posting. When I first read about it, I felt the anger as you do as well.


This is the alleged FB notes posted by the witness. At the time of posting, the FB notes had been removed. The above was copied from a blog.

When I think it over again, the staff did not do anything wrong legally. To have a conclusive views I decided to search news article to justify the notes. 


This is the statement by the police. (Source: Bernama) However, this article does not help me in making judgement. It only tell the chronology of the accident.


The Malay Mail provides a good and clear picture from the view of the lorry driver, Abdul Halim. A few important points from this article are:
  1. Abdul Halim claimed that the flames consumed the car is within seconds. So, if the witness A is able to get a fire extinguisher, that doesn't mean it could help.
  2. There are other 2 witness who try to bring the fire down using small extinguishers but was in vain. So, what make you think that a bigger perhaps the standard size fire extinguishers can help?
  3. The Vios driver is Cheng Kar Jin, 17 and passenger Cheng Yoke Ying, 17. 


From this Komunitikini article, it actually tell that the Witness A is actually a bystander named Teo Chai Yong. As can seen, the police was claimed to say that the victim could have been saved should a fire extinguisher arrived in time. But, can anyone defined the time frame for that? For Witness A to go to the nearest BHP station, asked for a fire extinguisher and drive straight of the Jalan Cheras road before making a U-turn and turning back at the same far distance to the scene, it may take at least 2 to 3 minutes or more (just my prediction).  

The Myvi driven by the victim

This is the photo captured by the anonymous bystander (Ondsceneblog). What make the issue even worse is the statement made by the BHP government relation manager, Abdul Kaiyum. He was saying that the staff refused to open the door because Witness A was not acting calm. As such, the public may condemn the STUPID and BRAINLESS manager. How could a person who had watch such a tragic accident to act calm when his request for help was not entertained but instead turned down despite giving away his IC? If the person who made such request act so steady and calm, then you should have suspicious of him/ her. If I am the BHP Director, I would have fired him for tarnishing the image of the company.

Instead, he shall be honest and told the press that it was an act of self defence to any untoward incidents. If the public only read the FB notes, definitely they will burst into anger. However, once you see this article (exclude the acting not calmly) and also the lorry driver statement, you may have a second thought just like me.

Robberies
in petrol station is very COMMON especially on midnight till there was once that the petrol station operators deny to operate their premises for 24 hours. Correct me if I am wrong, petrol station in rural areas do close at midnight which I observed in my hometown and other areas. Furthermore, the 2 staffs have previous records of being attacked and beaten up by assailants. No one can tell exactly what is true or what is fake. The accident happened 500 m away which is out of sight of the staff. I had seen comments from other blog post which say that 'oh come on, the IC won't be fake one right!' of which I am totally disagree as even the complicated passport can be faked. So, it will be totally based on personal judgement. No one will know if the staff open the door at the midnight of 3 am ++, there might be accomplices hiding from the dark. 
      
What triggering me to write this post is there is growing blog post writing on this topic and even a FB page to boycott BHP petrol was since created. The main ISSUE here is the public are misled to believe that the BHP staff are the murderer in this accident which is totally a reverse of fact.  

This is the FB page created to boycott BHP petrol. (Link here).

I am writing this not because to defend the BHP petrol station. I have not affiliations to this petrol company and I have changed to other petrol due to some unpleasant experience in the stations. My main intention is to correct the public for making false claim. Ever since the FB notes was posted, I saw growing number of blog posts writing on it, with each writing a very short post attached with the FB notes. Some called for boycott of the BHP while some claims that the BHP staff are the murderer.

Hey people! I do not read law but I believe you may be legally sued for claiming BHP or BHP staff of whatsoever is the murderer in this accident. The main murderer is the driver of the Toyota Vios who hit the Myvi driven by the victim. The public is generally misled and their attention is diverted into the BHP staff and the fire extinguisher issue. Reading a source is generally not enough to make any claims. You should have read others articles as well to justify your views.

Here are my opinions:
  1. The BHP staff may be morally wrong for not lending the fire extinguisher despite being told it was a real accident and Witness A is willing to give them his IC to prove it was a real scenario. However, the BHP staff did not do any wrong legally.

  2. Creating FB page and making a blog post asking the public to boycott BHP petrol is legally not wrong if your judgement is that the staff lack of humanity, True enough how much a fire extinguisher would cost compared to a life of a person. As a consumer, you have the power to decide and to choose you products.

  3. Claiming the BHP staff as murderer is legally wrong. The real murderer is the driver of the Toyota Vios who hit the car of the victim. You may be sued for tarnishing the image of the company. (in my opinion)

  4. Having a fire extinguisher as for Witness A doesn't mean that the life of the victim could have been saved. It takes time for him to go back to the scene and by that time, the flame might be too huge to get close to it. In addition, a standard fire extinguisher may not be able to put down a big fire. Moreover, there are two other witnesses who had tried using a small fire extinguisher but it was in vain.

  5. The Witness A's FB notes is nothing wrong. When you are in angry mode, you will say or act something beyond usual. I do understand how frusfrated when he felt that he could save a life of a person should he was given a fire extinguisher on hand. However, one must understand it is just assumption and probability and not definite.

  6. The big mistake is when people use his FB notes and started to claim the BHP staff are the murderer in their blog post. Once again, you may say that their staff lack of humanity but you cannot claim they are the murderer. They are not even present on the scene.

  7. One must also understand this is the culture in our society which is lack trustworthy and lack of secure among us. It is not something wrong as this culture is driven by the increased crime rate in the country. The police may have claim that the crime rate dropped SHARPLY but the citizens know the real situation. The big crime may be reduced but the small crime such as small robbery, small snatch theft, lost of items in the house compound like shoes and etc may not be reported to the authority. 
To conclude, let's not pointing our finger to anyone. It was an accident which was unplanned and nobody knows it. 

A better approach is to take this accident as a lesson for all drivers,. What we can do is how to ensure the safety of the driver as well as other road users? How can we better improve the conditions of the roads to prevent such incident in the future? (Eg putting a higher barriers)

As for the BHP petrol station, the issue does not only involved that particular petrol station but to ALL the petrol station nationwide. How can we improve the guidelines of opening the door of the kioks in emergency cases? How can we identify a real case to a fake case? How can we improve to protect the safety of the staff during late hours?

So, what say you?

Finally, my deep condolences to the family of the deceased.

*UPDATE*

Seriously, I am very tired to answer allegations to those people who deny that BHP attendants are wrong legally. Some called us lack of sympathy while some said we do not understand the pain assuming the commenters know VERY WELL.

Beside, many just drop their opinion without reading the whole story as well as the comment by other readers making me to answer repeatedly. If I alone only say this, I might be wrong. However, my views are supported by many other caring Malaysian. So, think twice.

Below are the listed good example by me and my readers. Do read before giving opinions.
  1. k0k s3n w4i: Reminds me of the Gaza flotilla incident where Malay Muslims went all antisemitic and blame the entire Jewish race for what the Israeli military and government did - when in reality, most Jews are not zionists, not Israeli, and not supportive of Israel's crimes against humanity. I dislike our countrymen's sheep-like mentality that judge by emotions rather than by facts.

  2. Bushido: Taking the moral high ground & condemning others who did not react as one feels they should have done is so easy.When you dissect the situation & ask yourself what you would have done if you had been there, then you'll realise nothing is ever so clear cut in real life ! Anyway, in the first place isn't 3.30 am an insane time to be out on the road ?

  3. J2Kfm : First thing that comes to mind, he must have blamed it on the staff of the petrol station for not lending/giving him the extinguishers. Okay ... I can understand that, plus the intense situation at hand, added fuel to the fire. A figure of speech.

    But there HAS to be a rule somewhere, stating how the fire extinguishers can be utilized. Surely one can't take an extinguisher from a station and uses that to extinguish fires NOT visible from the station, OR not within the vicinity of the station, not within the parameters of the station.

    Especially when this happened in the middle of the night, and the staff had previous untoward incidents before.

  4. Bushido: If someone comes to your house at 3.30 am, banging on your door demanding that you open up & let him use the phone to call the emergency services because someone is burning to death HALF A KILOMETER away & out of your sight;

    will you open up ????

  5. KF: Lets say if Mr A borrow money from Ah LOng. They said they will killed Mr A if he failed to get RM 100K. So, Mr A borrowed the money from you otherwise he would be killed the next day. However, you refused to lend your money. The next day, he got killed. The family then sued you for not helping him as a friend. So, what do u think?

    Instead of blaming the Ah Long who kill Mr. A, now people are blaming you to be a murderer. Does that sound logical?
Finally, this is a FREEDOM OF SPEECH. No one is perfectly right or wrong. Don't be offensive when making your claims and suppressed others to view their opinions. If you are such person, you are not welcomed here.

Having such stand doesn't mean that we are lack sympathy. As Bushido said, stop using the high and good moral values and condemning others for having an opinion that is totally opposite of yours. Be mature and be open minded to receive criticism. Having said that, I am not suppressing you the view out that the BHP attendants are murderer. You can do so but please come out with justified view. 

70 comments:

Jaerragus said...

It's the society's stupid system and way of thingking...

k0k s3n w4i said...

Excellent newsblogging work, mate. I too was disillusioned by the reactionary nature of the facebook post and its commenters; both the writer and his supporters stewed away together in righteous anger just to feel like the good guys.

Reminds me of the Gaza flotilla incident where Malay Muslims went all antisemitic and blame the entire Jewish race for what the Israeli military and government did - when in reality, most Jews are not zionists, not Israeli, and not supportive of Israel's crimes against humanity. I dislike our countrymen's sheep-like mentality that judge by emotions rather than by facts.

But I do advocate the boycott of BHP, not because of this incident (for which they cannot be blamed) but for their negligence leading to the current massive oil spill.

Lean said...

Dropping by ere kwong fei.. Have a great day.. Do drop by to mine too yeah..

Bushido said...

Congratulations, you are the lone rational voice among all those knee jerk reactionists !

Taking the moral high ground & condemning others who did not react as one feels they should have done is so easy.When you dissect the situation & ask yourself what you would have done if you had been there, then you'll realise nothing is ever so clear cut in real life !
Anyway, in the first place isn't 3.30 am an insane time to be out on the road ?

J2Kfm said...

How true, this is an article very well written Kwong Fei.

Let me share my views here, since I don't post about these issues over at my blog.

First and foremost, Mr Teo might be upset because it's true. It's such a tragic, disheartening sight to see someone being burned alive and you can't do anything about it.

First thing that comes to mind, he must have blamed it on the staff of the petrol station for not lending/giving him the extinguishers. Okay ... I can understand that, plus the intense situation at hand, added fuel to the fire. A figure of speech.

But there HAS to be a rule somewhere, stating how the fire extinguishers can be utilized. Surely one can't take an extinguisher from a station and uses that to extinguish fires NOT visible from the station, OR not within the vicinity of the station, not within the parameters of the station.

Especially when this happened in the middle of the night, and the staff had previous untoward incidents before.

No one's to be blamed for this sad, tragic saga.

Anonymous said...

You just mentioned the main murderer is the driver of the Toyota Vios and at the sametime you say let's not point finger to anyone. What are you trying to say?

How can you say the murderer is Driver of Toyota Vios? Do they purposely go and create this accident? No right? It is an accident. get it?

What makes most malaysian unhappy bout BHP is BHP staff got the chance to pass the fire extinguisher to Teoh. Yes, even teoh get it also may not able to save her BUT AT LEAST HE TRIED. He stands a chance to save the girl so there is a possibility the girl wont be dead.

I do agree labeling BHP staffs are murderer is too much but you cant deny that they dont even try to bother Teoh. BHP Government Relations Manager Abdul Kaiyum even claimed that they refused to open the door for Teo as he was not acting calm!

Please DONT say you do understand how frustrated when he felt that you could save a life of a person should he was given the fire extinguisher, because you DO NOT.

MichLeong said...

Nicely written!

Written a blogpost on this issue too over at my blog but it's not as detailed as yours.

Like you, I've thought, instead of trying to find the extinguisher, why not pull/save the lady out from her car asap? So at least a life would be saved. But to think of it deeply, she might be have been stuck to a point that you can't pull her out without a fireman's help (watch from tv one. lol). Worth a try though.

About his uncalm actions, I believe any of us will act that way in times of emergency. Panic will just consume us. And, I think, if it was me, I would be speechless.

Those workers should have judged the situation before as said by the witness, "smile" when replying at the witness's words and actions. Possibly they're not well educate and have low judgement that leads to that attitude of theirs. So yeah..

There's wrong to all sides. Like you say, we as road users just got to be more alert.

Btw, read my blog for my opinion. Short one >.<

http://michleong.blogspot.com/

KwOnG FeI said...

@Jaerragus: well, this is hard to change.

@KoK sen wai: like your comment. we should be able to think calmly before making any views.

@Lean: yea sure!

@Bushido: Well, couldnt comment much becoz we really did not know wat they were doing late night. Both of them are having a same surname and one article reported them as couple.

BTW, i think we malaysians always condemn other people as though we ourselves are the best and got high moral value. True enough they never place themselves in other poeple shoes

@J2Kfm: Agreed. Let's think of the pay of the staff perhaps RM 800-Rm 900. The boss had made order not to open the door. Let say touchwood, robberies occured when they opened the door.

Not only being scolded by their boss, they might be injured and the next day get fired. Worse still they may not get their salaries to cover the losses from robberies as they have defy the order of their boss.

Another perspective (probable) not definite.

Agreed that no one to be blamed.

@anonymous:

My dear friend. In this accident, it is very clear the real murderer is the driver of the Toyota Vios. Whether you like the term or not, he is still a murderer for him to cause such accident and the death of a poor girl. Next question is that it is an accident that he does not intended to. Well, it is correct and thus should he is found unintentionally causing the death of the poor girl, he will be charged under causing death unintentionally.

When there is a death, the case will be classified as murder. Your view is that he does not create the accident. True enough and when go to court, he will be charged of killing unintentionally. Do you get it? He is still a murderer but unintentionally. The law backs this.

What I am referring of not pointing the finger to others is when the public are actually pointing the fault towards the BHP petrol station staff. You get it?

Come on. The BHP staff has no obligation to offer help. It may be morally wrong as I wrote but legally nothing wrong. Place yourself in their shoes too when you making claims.

It is good that you agree with me on labelling BHP staffs as murderer are wrong.

You said that I do not understand Teoh. What is your evidence? Without evidence, I can say that you do not understand thaT I understand Teoh too. And how well you understand Teoh? Since you are making wild allegations, I am saying you as well do not understand Teoh as nobody can understand him.

@MichLeong: Agreed. People act differently at different situation. True enough that they may have low judgement but was it their fault?

Read your blog post too~ Lets be more alert on the road.

YY said...

1.Abdul Halim claimed that the flames consumed the car is within seconds. So, if the witness A is able to get a fire extinguisher, that doesn't mean it could help.

tat doesn't mean it couldn't help also...who knows? at least u try...

2.There are other 2 witness who try to bring the fire down using small extinguishers but was in vain. So, what make you think that a bigger perhaps the standard size fire extinguishers can help?

perhaps can help open the car door & let the woman out...

CaDLyNN said...

BHP should lend the extinguisherlah..

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KwOnG FeI said...

@YY:

1. Agreed on this. There is possibility that it could help and thus the staff is morally wrong.

2. erm not quite agreed. First, they are already other people trying to use fire extinguisher but couldnt help. Next, the victim is pinned down. In my understanding, it could only be taken out with the aid of bomba equipment.

@cadlynn: yes they should but not obliged to do so.

@anonymous: I would not answer your unjustified claim without evidence. In addition, don't be emotional when making claims. Whatever you had said was just an assumption or your belief which is not amounting to definite outcome.

Anonymous said...

URGENT
here!!!Looking for witness that saw the vios driver was a women and
passenger was a guy...The truth was being distorted...pls contact
0122046248(Jackson)/0162588352(Kar Jun)...helps from ladies/gentlemen here are needed and appreciated...thx.....its a serious....not plying...tis case wil not early to close.

creativemelancholic said...

At first, after reading the news, I was greatly disheartened, and angry. But I did manage to slowly realize that the main blame should be on the driver of the Toyota Vios. How old were the drivers, I don't know. I read up on some other sources, that claimed they were 17, and another in their 30s or 20s. If only there were more reliable sources.
But anyway, like someone said, great newsblogging, and eyeopening. Cheers.

DC said...

What a freak accident...

Rudi said...

i enjoy and respect the fact that you have an open mind about this and are able to see things from multiple perspectives. keep up the good journalism.

FiSh said...

they indeed made a mistake. but.. dont blame the whole bhp for the one person's mistake,do you? (;

Yin Mun~Moon said...

Good blog. We shall have more bloggers like you KF :-)

haslina said...

actually we the people of malaysian only based the story from the news which is written by the reporters...if the reporter just write down from a wrongly or copying somebody writing...then maybe the story can going wrong...

in the end...this is what has happened now. the people start to blame BHP..
not every person will try to read all the article about the accident like you..
they only based the story by on new and then spread it to other member...

it a good job you have done here KF..

KwOnG FeI said...

@Anonymous: wow.. dat is a serious matter of concern. To my readers, if you are one of the witness, kindly be brave to come forward and assist. BTW, if you see this, I think the best reliable witness would probably be the lorry driver. Perhaps, you can try contact the lorry driver.

@creativemelancholic: BERNAMA (2nd article above) reported a 33 year old man but it's just an assumption. However, the Malay Mail source seems reliable (3rd article above) which state the name and age as well.
Driver Cheng Kar Jin 17
Passenger Cheng Yoke Ying 17

To my disbelief, anonymous posted a message here earlier saying that the driver might be the woman.

*This matter need serious attention.*

@DC: yea.. seriously it is very disheartened when you hear someone was burn alive. mit will be a nightmare for those who had witnessed it.

@Rudi: thanks!

@Fish: yup.. I personally agreed that the BHP should have lend the fire extinguisher. But i am writing in as many were misled to belief the BHP staff instead were the murderer.

@Yin Mun: wow..thanks!

@haslina: thanks! Hope it help the readers to enable to place their judgement better. Well, nothing is perfectly right or wrong.

Bubbles...ooo said...

There's no sides to a coin. It is just bad judgement and time??? It happened at dawn!!!

Xiaopei said...

It's funny to say that Vios driver is murderer. It's an accident that nobody wants it to happen.

BHP attendants could be murderer too what. Because they refused to lend the fire extinguisher.

Yin said...

You have a good point there! I still think such rules that fire extinguisher is for own company's use is selfish especially it is common sense that when one needs a fire extinguisher it must be an emergency. It's a big no-no for BHP to have such rules.

Lukey Cher Hong said...

i think the point is not about who killed who or who caused the death of the woman. the point is that the BHP people had the chance to help but did nothing. accidents however, are not subject to choice. which is why no people blamed the driver. and we do not entirely if it was the driver's fault. And we'll never know how the story would have ended if the guy managed to bring the fire extinguisher there.

Bushido said...

Why are you guys hunting for a scapegoat ?

If someone comes to your house at 3.30 am, banging on your door demanding that you open up & let him use the phone to call the emergency services because someone is burning to death HALF A KILOMETER away & out of your sight;

will you open up ????

Anonymous said...

i don't know what are you trying to justify here. Imagine if the family's victim come across of your blog. How do they feel?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KwOnG FeI said...

@Bubbbles: it might be a different story should it occur in afternoon

@xiaopei: it's very funny to say bhp attendants are murderer when they are not even present on the scene. For the clarification of the terms murder, pls scroll up and check my reply to anonymous.

You can't punish ppl for refusing to give help LEGALLY but you can blame them for MORALLY wrong.

Lets say if Mr A borrow money from Ah LOng. They said they will killed Mr A if he failed to get RM 100K. So, Mr A borrowed the money from you otherwise he would be killed the next day. However, you refused to lend your money. The next day, he got killed. The family then sued you for not helping him as a friend. So, what do u think?

Instead of blaming the Ah Long who kill Mr. A, now people are blaming you to be a murderer. Does that sound logical?

Yin: Quite true but you can't tule out robberies as well. If i am not mistaken, fire extinguisher are placed outside the kiosk during the day time and kept inside during past midnight. And there are cases of robbery of fire extinguishers.


@Lukey: Yeap, there might be a different story should the fire extinguisher was lend to Witness A. That probably may save the girl.

We can blamed them morally.

However, you and I never know that if a fire extinguisher was given top Victim A, what is the probability of saving her. If you and I can come out with evidence that it can 100% save the girl, i will change my stand to call the BHP staff as murderers. But, do we have such?

Thus, we can just blamed them morally.

@Bushido: I like the example you given. Those who still claim that the BHP attendants are murderer should ask this. Place yourself in their shoe before making claims.

@Anonymous:

Dear friend, my consciences are CLEAR.

1. to prevent people for making false claims of the BHP attendants are murderer as I believed they can be sued legally and it is a total reverse of fact.

2. to justify my views that BHP attendants are not wrong legally but may be wrong morally. Check back my previous examples in the given comments to others.

If the family of the victim come across my blog, what would they feel?

Let me answer this. This will help them making their judgement CLEAR. How can you blame the BHP attendants when they are not in the scene and not directly cause the death of the poor girl. Instead, they should bring the driver of the toyota vios to the court (of which the police will do their job).

For the sender, we should not be emotional. I am ready for all this because I am sure some of the readers will call us who think in such a way as lack of sympathy.

I truly condemned those who think so. This is a freedom of speech and we think in various angles before making any conclusion.

Those who supported that the BHP attendants are murderer, tell me what did they do wrong legally. In a lawcase, if your answer is they SHOULD help, you will be at the first placed ruled out. There is no such thing as SHOULD as nobody is obliged to do anything.

For the driver of Toyota vios, it is because of his reckless driving that cause their car went to the OPPOSITE side of the road and hit the myvi. If you say that it is not his fault and still is the bhp attendants, I am speechless. For clarification of the term murder, pls check my reply to the anonymous.

@Anonymous:

*Your comment have been deleted for using offensive words.*

If you know the pain and think the BHP attendants are still legally wrong, well , BE BRAVE ENOUGH, COME FORWARD, MADE A LEGAL SUIT TO THE BHP and MADE THE WHOLE WORLD LAUGHING.

Stop spamming in my comment box with your one sided and unjustified view. You may voices out your opinion but never be offensive and disallowed others to view their opinions too.

Nothing is perfectly right or wrong.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
low jun fay said...

people who have never been robbed should not comment much on the BHP station staff reacted.

low jun fay said...

on how*

EriKo said...

This was the most rational post about the unfortunate incident happened that I've came across.

Judging on this case with taking account on different views perspectively.

We should look back on the cause of the accident instead of blaming one party that dint even present on the scene.

It might be the two BHP attendants poor judgement in reacting, in terms of emergency, but they shouldn't be pointed finger as The Murderer as they were not even at the incident took place. Those circulating news have made people forget what is the core of the accident.

Reckless drivers always caused innocent death. Deepest condolences to the victim's family.

Anonymous said...

staff hiding fire extinguisher in the premise is legal? or shall i call it place it in the premise? Study the rule first 'sherlock holmes' wannabe before you comment on illegal and legal.

KwOnG FeI said...

@jun fay: hey dude!! indeed a very true statement

@Eriko: agreed.. we can't blame them legally for having a bad judgement, morally indeed they are wrong but they have their reasons too.

@Anonymous:

Dear friend, good that you highlighted this.

1. Which law in the Constitution that state placing the fire extinguisher in the premise is wrong legally? You find out that cause or Acts and I changed my views.

2. The law only require each premises to store at least one fire extringuishers which is to be refilled every year (depend on type of business). You don't know about this? You can start going to any premises and asked them to see a fire extinguishers. Even worse, they usually are placed out of sight. Can you say they commit offense legally? (Check my fact, go to the hair saloon, post office, restaurant etc).

3. Correct me if i am wrong, fire extinguishers do placed outside the kiosk in the day time. Last time, if not mistaken, one fire extinguisher is placed at each refill stations/ bays. But due to robberies and pilferage, it is now placed closed to the cashier counter.

And now, dear lost friend. It is at mid night. The standard rules is to close the kiosk to prevent robberies. The two staff are working inside. If you were them, are you going to place the fire extinguishers outside the refill bays and induced robberies??

You must be kidding me seriously.

It is also quite annoying when you asked me to study the rules first when you yourself did not. Well, anyone is free to give comments but when you putting demands, offensive words (not you), is simply showed lack of maturity and understanding about free debate.

Anonymous said...

Accidents do happen, is a matter whether we take extra precautions or not.



We do not know what caused the accident, but most accident tends to happen late at night or wee hours. Is a matter of whether the driver dose off and crash to opposite lane or other reasons.

Lets take this as a learning lesson, don't drive unless you r fully alert , and PLEASE fit your car with a fire extinguisher, as it can save lives when the fire breaks out....

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
kelvinckh33 said...

No, not legally wrong of course. Morally wrong it was. And it was their inaction (perceived as immoral) that pissed some of the people off.

If they could be brought to court, a lot of people would have done that.
Again, we are just being emotional and it is perfectly acceptable. It signifies that there are people out there who would do anything to save lives.

By the way, I just realise some fire extinguishers may not be suitable to put out metal fire. So having a fire extinguisher with you might not necessary help much.

vangoth said...

I am glad that you wrote this. For a moment, i thought all Malaysians are that stupid to point their fingers at BHP. Some bloggers did not even have the correct facts and somehow substituted Teo for the lorry driver. I find it disturbing that almost everyone is blaming the BHP staffs and boycotting BHP for that reason. They are solely relying on Teo's statement about the incident, unless they were there. And for those who apparently do not go against BHP are considered "cold-hearted". I just think that the whole approach is wrong. Start by investigating what really happened and we would all know who's at fault.

Thanks for producing this article. =)

vangoth said...

And by the way, a hypothetical question: What if the guy was given the fire extinguisher but he did not know how to use it? Or probably he was too nervous to figure out a way to use it? Could he have contributed to the death of the girl? Could he indirectly be considered a murderer?

Anonymous said...

I think the author and some comments who supported the BHP staff are not really value life. The author seems to promote selfishness rather than helping other people. He seems to think that it is alright to let other people suffer just because he thinks that your own safety maybe compromised. These kind of people are selfish and heartless. Let's boycott BHP. They should be thought a lesson that life is precious not not cheap as promoted by this author.

Anonymous said...

DEAR OH-SO-OBJECTIVE Blogger and readers, have u all forgotten to credit the hero for at least TRYING to save a life and not stand and watch helplessly? If he did so, none of this would have happen would it? We need more ppl who are willing to come forward to help. So, let's not forget to thank him for TRYING TO SAVE A LIFE!!!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KwOnG FeI said...

@anonymous: agreed. however i got one concern. Though the idea of storing a fire extinguisher is good, can it withstand the hot weather aka under the hot sun in our country? Hope there will be article on it. If we can have a weather proof fire extinguisher, i will get one too.

@kelvinckh33: agreed. My concern was not on whether it can put down a metal fire but my concern is more whether should Witness A supplied with fire extinguisher, will he be able to arrive in time.

At the same time, two other witness had try using small fire extinguishers but was in vain.

True also your argument that will he know how to operate. But that should not be a major concern.

@anonymous:

I do not promote your so called 'cheap life'. If you read my article and the readers comments thoroughly, my main idea here is to prevent people from blaming BHP as murderer but they may be wrong morally.

Having said that doesn't mean me and my readers are selfish and heartless. We condemned the act of the BHP staff for not helping in BUT at the same time, we consciously aware that they should not be blamed for the death of the victim. Once again, LEGALLY, they are not wrong.

@Anonymous: No doubt that the public knew about his great deed. He has shown his willingness in helping others alien to him.

Thanks for reminding me on that.

@anonymous

*comment deleted because of using offensive words*

dear emotional anonymous, there are two things you need to aware of which is reality versus morality.

Morality is like a perfect or ideal line.

In reality, there is always no perfect line of which we called deviation from perfect line.

As such, looking in terms of morality alone is not enough to make a conclusive judgement. Yea..the BHP staff are wrong morally for not helping in.

However, in reality, have you ever considered them and placed yourself in their shoes.

Lets say you are the BHP attendants and:
1. earn 800-900 or less per month.
2. being attacked by assailants before
3. boss give strong order not to open kiosk at late night.
4. boss told if anything loss, they need to pay back.
5. you encountered with stranger at 330 am (prime time for robberies) asking you to open the door.
6. WHAT WILL YO DO?

True enough a fire extinguisher may be cheap around 100? Should robberies occur, fire extinguisher are lost, one need to buy a new one from balai bomba and YOU are going to absorb the cost.

Not to mention, the kiosk may lost thousands of ringgit due to robberies. Boss ask YOU to absorb the cost. So, your next month salary will be ZERO!

Fine enough, people say YOU are selfish in protecting yourself. But, does protecting oneself is wrong LEGALLY?

This is the ARGUMENT here. As such, no doubt we think that YOU are wrong MORALLY but LEGALLY you are not wrong.

At the same time, people say YOU are the MURDERER of the victim when YOU are working in the kiosks. What do YOU feel?

Another ARGUMENT here is that YOU should not be called murderer but just morally wrong.

So, are we clearing the air over this issues are labelled as selfish and does not value life?

Whatever you said, that's your point and I do not want to DEVIATE from my arguments here.

Nothing is perfectly right or wrong but DON'T POINT FINGERS TO ANYONE.

Bushido said...

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/6/7/nation/20100607110851&sec=nation

@anonymous is so fixated on blaming a third party !
Read the above news and tell me, do you blame
the saftey wall in this case ?

Boycott Plus for if there had been no safety wall, the victims wouldn't have died ?

Anonymous said...

Bushido, don't talk like a child. nobdy is purposely finding somebody to blame. I find many ppl like to act like smart alecks to try to give a diff pov, disregarding the fact that humanity should always come first. ppl like u guys r the ones who make society the way it is today. bless you!

cpjing said...

@anonymous: You're so right about humanity should always come 1st. I'm thinking you're condemning the 2 BHP staff because [I'm quoting your sentence] 'He seems to think that it is alright to let other people suffer just because he thinks that your own safety maybe compromised'.

Before you start condemning, if you put yourself in their shoes (like what the author said), would you:

1. open the door and give Witness A the fire extinguisher and risked your own safety if Witness A turns out to be a robber?

2. Do not open the door because your own safety maybe compromise as robbery happens before.

It's tough to decide right? Unfortunately, the 2 BHP staff chose not to open the door :(

Anonymous said...

If a stranger come to my home asking fire extinguisher and more over willing to give his whole wallet to me, I WILL OPEN THE DOOR. I would risk being robbed rather than being haunted by the guilt for not helping a victim which her death was indirectly caused by me. Not everyone think selfish like you.

Bushido said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
armanio said...

If someone knocks my door and ask to use my phone at 3am for an emergency. I will not open the door but instead I will call the police myself and report it insted.

As a staff at a high risk place, be smart and vigilant. Yes, there are robberies but its all about your personal preference and willingness to help.

If it was me working at the kiosk;
1. There are CCTV all around the petrol station, check if there are anyone hiding around,
2. Get Witness A to stand back, open the door drop to extinguisher
3. Lock the door.

Yes, it was emotional to quote BHP as murderers BUT this doesnt relieve BHP of some responsibility. We can bring back the dead but lessons are to be learnt. More regulations are needed on where petrol stations keep their fire extinguishers. In my humble opinion one unit should be placed next to each pump.

It is totally wrong to compare the placement of fire extinguishers with saloon and your slimming centers and petrol stations are fire hazards area anyways. It had to be reachable at all times.

Probably they can place and lock it up outside to prevent pilferage. All the need to do then is to toss the key in an event like this happens.

The reason I believe people are chosing to boycott BHP is also the manner BHP is responding to this. Instead of coming up with future and feasible plan to avoid this kind of event to repeat, they are simply defending as if no harm done and they are not morally and socially reliable.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KwOnG FeI said...

@Bushido: agreed that some people are so fixated on finding blame on third party. Die die also say they are wrong but cannot provide a good judgement but instead come out with offensive words. Mere talk and acting high humanity..

Sorry for being late to moderate the comments till offensive words were used by the one of the anonymous.

@anonymous: when putting your argument, can you please don't label other eg act like a child? be in a fair and equal platform.

at the same time, there are also society who just talk of high morality but nobody knows when the real incidents happened to them, they will act against the long said morality.

@cpjing: agreed that there are tough decisions in live. There are bad and good judgement too at all times and happened to all of us. As such, the BHP attendants may have abd judgement.

@Anonymous: DON'T ACT LIKE YOU ARE A NOBLE PERSON. It was a total crap! Open a door to a stranger?? You make a survey among our society and if majority of them have your same views, I will made apology to you.

@Anonymous: If I am the petrol operator who see this, I might just called the petrol operators association to stage a protest and made the government approved them for not operating 24 Hours.

You have a point to put the lock and key inside the shop whereas the fire extinguishers outside. However, I don't think it is feasible to be implemented.

1. Fire extinguishers are meant to be easily reachable and not locked. Thus, during the day time, it was placed near the cashier counter.

2. During the midnight time, the staff will put inside the kiosk. Should emergency arise which occur in the premise of the petrol station, they will come out and do the necessary steps.

3. If it is suggested to lock the fire extinguisher in petrol pump during midnight time, then it will involve cost to do so. Who are going to bear the cost?

4. My argument is that if it is so troublesome that during day time, they can placed outside unlocked and during night time, they need to placed it outside with lock, then might as well they close totally the premises at night.

True enough that they should make a public apology for having poor judgement but at the same time be honest to say it it was an act of defense.

@anonymous aka old man.

I am supposed you are an old man for calling me young man. So, old man, your comments have been deleted because the first line of your comment is found to be offensive.

However, you made a good point here that there might be misperfection in their safety procedures.

I also agreed to you that as you called 'general moron manager' are creating issues to cover their fault. You see it, and I see it toO.

Finally, you decide to boycott the BHP station. No doubt it is your right if you think so due to the lack of humanity ground.

Last but not least, this is an good example of free debate. You have your point too but when you are emotional, you tend to write offensive words. When you do so, I have no choice but to delete it.

Emotional people = irrational people.

Thought of the day.

TQ.

KwOnG FeI said...

@armanio: i agreed to your statement that you will call police instead. Indeed, it is very true.

I also agree to you view that BHP was wrong to be labelled as murderer. You have said that BHP should not relieve with the responsibility and justified with your given example.

I truly love your comments that finally somebody with opposite view can view his opinions here without being emotional.

It was indeed true that on your said action to get witness A to stand back and drop the extinguisher and locked the door.

However this only apply if the BHP attendants have good judgement. No doubt they might made a wrong judgement.

For the lock up outside the premise, I had view my opinions in earlier comment.

True also that the BHP management should have instead rectify the problem and come out with a solution plan in near future.

As I always said, it is the rights of the people to boycott BHP.

Finally, this is another perspective of the conversation.

TQ.

@anonymous: you have nothing better to do than barking people with offensive words. Truly an uncivilised people.

DEN said...

I not blaming the staffs for not helping out, i just wanted to point out that the operator for the petrol station did not folloing the safety rules & regulations by putting the fire extinguisher inside the shop.

Is not much to buy few lock isnt it? correct me if i wrong, dont tell me that whole BHP group cannot afford to buy few lock for every BHP stations in malaysia.

If you said the lock is troublesome, then they should implement red box with breakable glass infront like all the building in malaysia does. Isnt this is a must to all the petrol stations in malaysia? I did saw few petrol stations that i have visited, did put the red box with breakable glass beside each petrol pumps

You cant blame those angry people out there, the same BHP station still doing the same mistake even this tragic incident had happen. The link below is the photo taken recently. Somemore the BHP PR is giving a very lame explanation adding salt to this wound.

http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=129676560391899&share_id=128021293893636&comments=1#!/photo.php?pid=32203&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=129676560391899&aid=-1&oid=129676560391899&id=100001190274107

The true murderers is the vios driver and the BHP operator for not following the correct safety procedure.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anti BHP said...

there are 2 separate incidents here. the vios driver who caused the crash and also the bhp workers who were reluctant to lend the fire extinguishers. people who condemn the bhp workers are not disputing the fact that the vios driver is guilty. they just want bhp to own up to their irresponsible actions (locking up the fire extinguishers) and reactions (initial press statement by the BHP PR).

petrol stations are governed by a set of rules and regulations, OSHA being one of them and in OSHA, the accessibility to fire extinguishers is stated very clearly no matter which country's OSHA for petrol stations you refer to.

i have a few questions here that i hope you can answer.

1. if that area is so dangerous due to frequent robberies, why is the bhp station still operating 24 hours? does this mean that the owner of the bhp franchise is more worried about profits rather than the safety of his/her employees? isn't this a blatant disregard for the safety of his/her employees? why were their licenses renewed?

2. if the employees were robbed and attacked before, why are they still working the graveyard shift? if the owner denies their request to working day shifts, the workers can always work for another station. why continue to "stay" at a high risk place?

3. IF the workers were somehow unaware of their rights or were under the impressions that they have no rights, then the owner will be at fault for either intentionally or unintentionally withholding information. Why wasn't this issue uncovered during audits? BHP as the franchiser needs to know about all these things and if they didn't, what use are audits? what are the guidelines and how are the audits being carried out? till now, no one knows as bhp is not forthcoming with information. how else you expect "people like us who take the moral high ground" to think? what is there to hide?

4. each company has to have a corporate social responsibility charter. profits should not come at the expense of safety of the public. excuses like the fire extinguishers are only for internal use is ridiculous unless you are telling me that they are also not lending the fire extinguishers even if the CEO's mother's car catches fire 1 meter outside the station. if they do help the CEO's mom, can they be sued for double standards then?

emergency situations always puts the preservation of life as top priority. being a petroleum company, i'm sure that they have specific guidelines regarding all types of situations. these guidelines are universal. unless bhp is transparent and reveals the guidelines to show that they are not obliged to help, they will continue to suffer the anger and reactions (such as boycott and bad PR) by people like "us who take the moral high ground".

btw, robberies also happen during the day time. if the same situation happens at 3:30pm instead, will the bhp workers refuse to lend the fire extinguishers because it is company policy too?

to those who won't extend a helping hand if it was at night, will you help if the accident occurred at 3:30pm instead knowing the fact that robberies also happen in broad daylight?

DEN said...

people who never admit their own mistake will never improve and advance, futhermore they added stupidity to their own wound is even far more worst..........

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone. Well... just my 2 cents. For me, I too joined the Boycott (inHumane Petrol) group in FB. But for me, it's not the 2 fellas I'm trying to blame or what. It's just a real sad thing that the Fire Extinguisher in left inside. well.. true enough that if Teo did manage to get the F.E. the girl might not be saved.

For me, it's their SOP. Why do they need to keep the F.E. inside the station? It's a safety equipment that can possibly saves lifes.

Yesterday, 9/6/10 11.15pm, I was passing by Puchong BHP station, just being kepoh, drove in and look out for the F.E. their door is locked with the F.E. inside. Shows that they did not learn a lesson. Well, I'm not too sure whether that station is a 24hrs or not. If it's not a 24hrs station, I take back my word. Cos they might be worry about that.

This case, I don't know and won't even bother who's fault it is.

As for BHP, I think it's a great eye opener for them to change a little of their standard procedure. And well, I read a note in FB by some guy.



SEATTLE — The head of a Brooklyn ambulance company said Tuesday that the president of Starbucks has personally apologized after rescue workers in New York were forced to pay a Starbucks shop $130 for water to treat victims of the terrorist attack.

Midwood Ambulance Service President Al Rapisarda said he received a hand-delivered reimbursement check � and a personal call from Starbucks president Orin Smith � after reports of the incident became public.

"It was a misunderstanding with Starbucks," Rapisarda said after talking to Smith.

Midwood Ambulance Service alerted Starbucks to the incident in an e-mail, which was obtained by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

Smith said Tuesday he did not know why the coffee shop near the World Trade Center towers charged the rescue workers.

"It's totally inconsistent with the kind of behavior we would have expected from our people, so it has been very upsetting to learn of this," Smith said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Shortly after the Sept. 11 attack, rescue workers rushed into a nearby Starbucks store to get water to treat shock victims, Rapisarda said. Ambulance company workers said employees in the shop demanded they pay $130 for three cases of bottled water. The workers paid cash, out of their own pockets.

Reached by telephone, the manager of the shop, the Battery Park Plaza Starbucks, declined to comment.

Rapisarda said he was happy with Starbucks' conciliatory gestures, which Smith said included free coffee and other gifts.

"It's not a big deal anymore," Rapisarda said.

Starbucks closed stores nationwide for a day after the attacks, although the company said several stores near the World Trade Center and New York City hospitals served coffee � and water � to rescue workers for free.

He said the company also has donated coffee and other services throughout New York City since the attacks

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,35198,00.html

this is something that BHP should learn

Rgds,
Joe

Anonymous said...

http://komuniti.malaysiakini.com/news/no-reason-to-lock-away-extinguishers-says-fire-department

The BHP trying to mislead the public about the actual petrol station involved. The fire department said the fire extinguisher should be OUTSIDE NOT INSIDE the building.

KwOnG FeI said...

@DEN: initially, i was thinking the idea of putting a fire extinguisher (FE) with lock at the petrol pump during night time will be a hassle as during the day time, FE shall be remain unlocked at all times.

However, after reading your comment, I found that it was a very good idea to install the red box breakable with FE inside at each of the pump.

Though it may oncur cost, i think this is more 'cost effective' rather than the lock as putting the red box can last permanently (unless being used) and also increase the level as safeness to the public as petrol station is a hazardous area.

At the same time, it can also solve the fear of being robbed at midnight. Public who need it in emergency can just inform the staff and break the red box by their own and report it back to authorities or those concerned.

How I wish this idea is brought to the authorities.

I agreed that the BHP management had added salt to the wound by acting stupidly.

@Joe: It's good that you share the view that the 2 bhp staff are not to be blamed and also if teo get FE, the girl might not be saved. It probably may and at the same time may not. Good that your think in that rational way.

As written, the reason of keeping FE is that the kiosk is to be closed so they bring it inside as well.

True enough SOP need to be changed. I am in the view as mentioned by DEN earlier to install the red box breakable with FE inside.

Thanks Joe for the article. It is really an eye opener to the MAlaysian as a whole.

I truly love the way the starbucks managed the issue. As for BHP station, they should be honest to say it is an act of defense but they should not run away from the moral obligation.

I actually was searching for the press release that was supposed to be given on Monday 5 June but it seem there is none.

I am looking forward the BHP to say out the honest word and at the same time MUST AT LEAST express regret and do something to compensate as in terms of social obligation (not amounting that they have done wrong legally) eg donate some money or at least say they will review their SOP.

@Anonymous: Thanks for the article. I have read it.

Quoting the article:

“We understand that, that’s why we don’t blame them to keep (the extinguishers) inside when the shop is closed,”

“But for 24-hor kiosks, I don’t see why they want to do so.”

dear friend, I have some doubt here.
Maybe you would like to enlighten me on that.

1. What does it mean 24 H kiosks? If in the case of BHP or many other station, they close their kiosks at midnight and only open the cashier counter to pay for petrol. I am not sure whether if in this case, it is considered 24 H kiosk? To my view, 24 kiosks meant that you can go in and purchase items in the kiosks.

2. if and only if the kiosks that close door for customer but only open for petrol payment cashier is not considered 24 H kioks, it that according to the statement not wrong?

Btw, finally i get to see Teo face~

KwOnG FeI said...

@Anonymous: when i see your questions, the first thing that come to my mind is 'SUBJECTIVE'.

I try my best to answer your question based on my opinions though I know it might not satisfy you as the question is very subjective as in different people have different views and there is no solid fact or evidence for the answer or in fact none.

1. Why the bhp is still operating 24 H?
Correct me if i am wrong, they might be obliged to do so. As I had mentioned, petrol operators were asked to continue their service 24 H especially in town area. They are not putting the credit card service as method of payment as if not mistaken, it is the petrol operators that bear the cost of credit card service and not the customers. So, they need a cashier.

2. why continue stay?
In Chinese saying, 'people that have hair will never want to be bald'. Judging on their education background, do you think they received a high level of education. I in the view that they might just PMR or SPM leavers. Their salary range in my view is 800-900 per month. With the education background and the low salary payment, do you think they have a better option? Do you think they will not change work to other petrol station should they are being offered? This is too subjective! I am in the view that it is not easy to find job at the current situation and with the 'not so good education background', we can't expect much.

*This is solely my opinion and I have no intention to undermine their capability*

3. rights:
Taken the points in answer 2, do you think with the 'level and background' they have, they will fight for this and that? In real working environment, the saying 'the boss is always right' does apply and 'if you don't want to work, there will be others waiting for it'.

Audit? This has gone far from the discussion. Who are we to say about it when you and I did not know single thing about the audit? Audit thingy is an 'internal' affairs of a company and to which extent the audit covers, how are we going to discuss it when we have no single information.

What is there to hide? I not sure why you associate audit with this. But if your question is related to audit (and not by right the SOP), then in my view, they have every rights not to disclose it. Every single big company has audit, and to my knowledge only the staff will know it as i said that it is an internal affair. (Audit is not the same as SOP as SOP can be part of audit)

4. not lending FE?
well, i think it is very subjective.
In my view, the incident occur at 3.30 am+ in the dark at the bhp petrol station, and I believe only witness A and the 2 attendants are present at that particular moment.

Answer is very subjective. Things might be in different story should:
1. There are other customers at the petrol station at that time.
2. the accident occurs in the sight of the attendants.
3. the incident occur at day time.

(incident is when Witness A deal with BHP attendants where accident is the car crash)

I believe in my view that there is specific guidelines on the SOP but I in the view that there is lack of standardised or good SOP for nightime SOP.

In my humble opinion, the issue will be a different story should the incidents occur at day time. During daytime, there might be FE placed outside. There might not be fear of being robbed. When all these fear factors are being removed, once again I believe they would do so.

Anonymous said...

KF: I believe, majority people are waiting like u said, for BHP to at least do something now. The more they keep quiet, the more damage done. And I think BHP should take a look at the way how Starbucks has done right in the Damage control rather than some PR Managers getting the people more angry. It's not doing any good to any party, whether Teo, The victim's family, the group of ppl who's Boycotting FB and most importantly it's not doing any good to BHP.

Cheers and thanks for sharing a good article here to open everyone's eyes.. :)

Rgds,
Joe Yap

janice said...

You have the right not to borrow money to people BUT you cannot ignore when someone desperately asking you to help by borrowing a LIFE SAVER EQUIPMENT!

I guess BHP's fire extinguisher is only meant for display purposes and not for life saving purposes. They only use it for their very own station incase of emergency.

Others get lost !

DEN said...

In my earlier statement about the red box, here is a photo i would like to show you all with the link below.

http://www.facebook.com/BoycottinHumanePetrol#!/photo.php?pid=5003886&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=129676560391899&aid=-1&id=577772670&oid=129676560391899&fbid=407140412670

Jimmy T said...

Even it is a long story! Pity the girl the freaking stupid BHP staff

ihomerent said...

it's sad , bhp even defended their action, that's life

Anonymous said...

why no one blame the vios driver for driving recklessly?

he is the one to ban/blame/beat up. why drive like a madman?

Carol said...

It's a tragic accident. My thoughts and prayers go to those who lost their loved ones in this incident.

Andi said...

My heart goes out to the victims and families of this very tragic event. I believe it would help make it a little less difficult if they take a look at this site. Knowing someone else is going through the same thing helped me cope when I went through the same ordeal.

Related Posts with Thumbnails